Collection Basics: An Interview with a Collections Pro with @30 Years of Experience

by Ranger Kidwell-Ross, director

In March of 2025 I conducted a Zoomcast interview with Mo Saleh, an associate with Tucker, Albin and Associates. Use the link below if you want to watch the @25-minute Zoomcast.

Alternatively, you can choose to click here to listen to our conversation or continue reading the following transcription of our conversation.

This is Ranger Kidwell, Ross, editor of WorldSweeper.com and the Director of the World Sweeping Association. It’s my great pleasure today to interview a very knowledgeable individual. Mo Saleh is an associate with Tucker, Albin and Associates, a company that’s very good at helping people get paid the money that they are owed. The organization seems like a very viable alternative to try to go to legal work or something like that. So, Mo, am I right that you’ve been at this nearly 30 years?

Mo Saleh 

Yes, you’re right. And first off, thank you for having me. This is a great opportunity and a pleasure. I’ve been in the collection industry almost 30 years now. I’ve seen it all. I’ve been on the work for lawyers. I’ve worked for debt settlement companies. I’ve worked for collection companies. I’ve seen it all, and now with Tucker I love what we do. We do strictly commercial collections.

Ranger Kidwell-Ross 

You and I have talked about some of the problems you’ve seen with contractors, which is what prompted the Zoomcast. We have some amount of problems in the power sweeping industry, with contractors and primarily with third party vendors, sometimes also called “consolidators.” 

They’ve gone to national organizations and convince them they should provide up their contractors in a variety of exterior services. They’re probably doing it for interior as well. Snow plowing is often included, and so forth. When payment problems show up one of the things that creates that is signing bad contracts. Although there are some very good third party vendors out there, there are a few of those apples that are making the barrel look pretty rotten. 

So let’s talk about about that and and see what you’ve found in that kind of a situation. For example, I’ve heard numerous stories on this kind of topic, where a third party vendor will have a national company of some kind; let’s say Home Depot, just as an example. The vendor will have a number of stores in a region, and a contractor is hired to handle the actual services, and everything goes fine. 

And then the vendors might lose the Home Depot contract, and maybe they gain another contract someplace like a Lowe’s or a Target. So, it’s not unheard of that they might go to the same contractor and say, “Well, you know, we can’t really pay you for the work you’ve done for national #1 that hasn’t been paid, because we got canceled. 

However, we now have a contract for national #2, whoever they are. And so can you do services for them? We hope to be able to pay you the money we owe you previously. Then, when the contractor does the work for national #2 they still don’t end up getting paid for their work for national #1. Is that anything you’ve run into in your business?

Mo Saleh 

Unfortunately, yes, there’s been an influx. I’ve noticed in the last six months to a year, and probably longer, where you’re finding these third party contractors not keeping true to their word as far as paying the vendors. 

With that being said, the best way I could relate that to is the cousin who asked to borrow $1,000 that doesn’t pay you, and then comes back six months later and says, “Can I borrow $1,000 again? I promise to pay you this time.” You’ll probably have some sort of resistance to letting them borrow that (second $1000). 

It’s the same thing in the the contract world, right? Why would somebody pay you on the second job and not on the first one? The industries we’re dealing with are typically net 30 industries, maybe net 45 if you have an established relationship with them. My advice to any contractor out there is, on that 31st day, if you haven’t been paid, that should be a red flag. You need to follow up. At that point, you need to take action to secure getting paid. 

What we’ve come to do, and that’s what separates our company, Tucker Albin, from other collection agencies, is we approach the debtor in a soft manner. We are typically diplomatic and will say, “Contractor name really appreciates the business opportunity, and was very appreciative in accepting that job. However, there are some financial differences that we’ve been brought in to resolve. Upon us getting some sort of conclusion or good faith payments being made, they would be happy to take on that second contract with you.” That’s the approach we want to take.

Ranger Kidwell-Ross 

That makes sense, Mo. It is a soft way to go at that and, and I think it also, at the same time, gets their attention well.

Mo Saleh 

In our industry, in collections, there’s such a bad connotation that’s attached to that, right? People hear collections and we’re the bad guys, but they don’t see the other side of it, which is, we bring a lot of justice to people that are owed. And in our case, we’ve learned that we’re going to catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. 

However, can we be a little more demanding; can we be a little more aggressive? Absolutely, but for the most part, we approach them with a kid glove, a softer approach and just try to resolve the differences. Some of the time there’s a misunderstanding on both ends, and sometimes just a second voice helps clarify some misunderstandings. So when you have somebody who is trained to collect you may well find that they’re able to pinpoint that and address the differences and get needed results for both sides. 

We have a lot of vendors we deal with who are happy when we contact them, because we understand the process. We understand what they’re going through and what they have. Sometimes we find out what the contractor has to go through in order to get paid.

Ranger Kidwell-Ross 

Are you seeing that sometimes this is or how often are you seeing that the contract is faulty or has clauses the contractor should never have signed and that’s what creates this kind of thing.

Mo Saleh 

You see it fairly often. Unfortunately, I think a lot of contractors are excited to get the opportunity. They see the numbers, they see the big vendor, the Home Depot, the Lowes, and are excited to take on that opportunity. But as with any contract, you need to be able to look and see what you’re signing. You have to be able to understand that company’s process and make sure that you are willing to adhere to the contract clauses. If you’ve done everything, if you’ve dotted your I’s and crossed your T’s, and you’ve done the work, and you followed their Master Service Agreement to the T and they’ve broken that promise or breach that contract by non payment, then you absolutely have a claim. 

But yes, to answer your question, there is a lot of contracts out there that, frankly, in my opinion, should not be out there. They have been written to be in the benefit of the third party and not the contractor.

Ranger Kidwell-Ross 

Well, one of the things that I mentioned to you prior to to our start, that we have done at the World Sweeping Association is that we have developed a list of contract clauses that contractors really should look out for and provided that to all of our members. We then added to that a Contract Addendum document, which show clauses where you shouldn’t sign a contract when they contain these. 

Our WSA Addendum says something like “all of the items in this Addendum supersede any contract clauses to the contrary.” I’m telling the contractors, if you have items in a contract that you’re unfamiliar with, find out from your attorney or from a trusted business advisor so you know how much of a problem any type of clause represents. 

We also tell them that if they know they don’t want to sign a contract with that clause, but would if only the clause wasn’t there, then the advice is to initial and cross it out; then, send it back and and make sure you keep a signed copy in your files if it’s accepted from their end. I say that because we had one contractor report that when they went to court, the third party vendor brought in a contract that did not have their initials or the cross out. They won because they were able to bring in their copy of the contract. That solved everything.

Mo Saleh 

Let me add to that. By no means am I an attorney, but I’ve been in the industry long enough to know that if that Addendum is not accepted — and pretty much you’re just asking to get paid when the job is done and that’s what any contractor wants, right? If they’re not willing to accept that, then that’s kind of showing their intentions on their part, right? 

When services are performed, payments should be rendered, right? Very simple. If they have concerns or are not willing to go by that addendum, that, again, should raise some red flags to you. You should question whether or not it appears you are not going to get paid when the job is done.

It doesn’t seem fair to not pay, because they’re the ones contracted by the Home Depots, the Lowes, the Family Dollars or whoever. I always tell people that when that happens take a step back.  Take the emotion out of the situation and just look at the facts. Use the logic if they’re not willing to pay you when the work is done, then the $100,000 $200,000, $50,000 or whatever contract they’re promising you is worth zero, right? So make sure that you’ve done your homework to to cover yourself. And like you said, if you aren’t sure, ask the question. Also, if they want you, they will respect the fact that you need a day or two to make sure that your business attorney or business advisor will look that over for you to secure your interest.

Ranger Kidwell-Ross 

Yes, absolutely. And in our industry, there have been other clauses that are put into the contract that really don’t make sense. They’re included as a way to give you added liability. 

As an example, when I started in this over 30 years ago I told contractors “You’re there at night when the management is not so tell them you’ll be the eyes and ears for them at night when when you’re on the property and and tell them things you see that are out of place, need work, etc.”

 Well, that has morphed through the decades to where these third party vendors are saying, as an example, we want you to sweep three nights a week at a price the contractor agrees to. However, in the contract that says if anybody slips and falls you’re going to be in the first position of liability no matter when the accident occurred. That doesn’t make the least bit of sense.

Mo Saleh 

I can’t speak for the legalities of that. But again, if you take the emotions out and just look at the logic, like you said, it doesn’t make sense, right? The best advice I give any contractor out there is take pictures and/or videos, before and after. I suggest that every job before and after you take before pictures, dates and time show it, and after pictures, dates and time and again. That’s to secure you. You know, I say typically, hold on to those for two to three years. After that you can delete them. That’s to protect you against the off chance some legal issues come down. At least you’ve protected yourself and not scrolling through your phone looking for text messages or going through your email.

Instead, you’ve got it handedly ready for them and for you.

Ranger Kidwell-Ross 

Yes, that’s that’s a good idea. However, that is more difficult in parking lot sweeping, because you’re sweeping an entire large area. And any material could have blown in or been dropped right after they quit sweeping. Who knows?

Mo Saleh 

Absolutely, Mother Nature plays a part in it. I’ve had situations where people have been accused of not performing the work well, in situations where next thing you know it you’ve got 30-40 mile an hour wind gusts and the material blew in from the parking lot across the street and now it’s on your client’s property. 

So again, just document and that two minutes of doing so will save you a lot of headache in the future. Not just that: if it lands on our desk and we have to collect on that for you, it gives us leverage by saying, “Hey, we’ve got pictures, we’ve got documentation showing that this work was performed.” It’s hard to argue that at that point, right? And that’s for any industry, whether it’s sweeping parking lots, whether it’s a plumber, whether it’s an electrician, landscaping or whatever.  Before and after pictures provide payment safety.

Ranger Kidwell-Ross 

Photos are especially sensible in the landscaping work, which a lot of sweeping contractors also do. How about this: When do you suggest that somebody should get a lien on a on a property? Is that anything you have experience with? At the 30 days, should you lien a property? 

One of the things we have trouble on with these third party vendors is that in the contract it says you can’t contact the actual client. In other words, your client is the third party vendor. The Home Depot or whoever is really the actual client where the work is done, but the contract says you can’t contact them directly. By contract, you have to go through the third party. Is there a time when they should look at this and and lien a property.

Mo Saleh 

Again, I am not an attorney, but you want to make sure you secure your position. Every state has different laws as far as placing liens, so I would suggest taking a few minutes to look up what those lien laws are and what the process is. Putting a lien in place if you have reason to think you are going to have payment issues will only strengthen your position of getting paid. 

Does it mean you’re going to get paid? No, I have several clients a month place with us accounts where they’ve placed a lien. And again, it makes our job easier as far as contacting the third party vendor. I don’t consider it was contacting the client where you did the work. You are contacting the local county clerk, and you’re filing a lien with them to secure your interest in getting paid. So I think any good attorney would be able to argue the fact that you did not contact the vendor directly.

So yes, and I tell people to consider filing a lien based on the date right after you weren’t paid. I’m going to give you some statistics: The conversion rate on accounts that are placed with our company within three months, we convert 68% of them. Now people who wait later than that, when they wait between three and six months, that conversion rate drops from 63% to 43% and that’s a big drop. When you wait six months to year, it goes to 29%. And, if you don’t have pictures and you don’t have a lien in place, and it’s a he said, she said, it makes it tougher to go and fight to get your money. 

So it’s imperative that these contractors understand that lining should be a normal process. From what I’ve come to see, it is a very simple process. Most states have made it easy for you to be able to go on the state website and fill out some documentation, attach the proper information and apply the lien. It could be a little overwhelming at first, but once you’ve seen and done it a few times it becomes cookie cutter. It’s pretty much filling out a PDF format. 

And I can’t tell you how much more that helps, as far as communicating. Nine times out of 10, when they get notice of that lien we’re not reaching out to them because they’ll reach out to us. That’ half the battle, because otherwise how many times are we calling and I’m not getting an answer? Nobody’s returning my calls, nobody’s getting my emails. 

Just use your basic instinct. Is it worth it if you’re owed $20k, $50k, $100k? Yes, I would absolutely suggest filing a lien on that property. At the very least you’re going to get their attention. However, another problem that I see is a lot of companies then reach out and say, we’ll pay you but you have to remove the lien first. Again, I’m not an attorney. But does that make sense to you? Absolutely not. Why would I release a lien if I haven’t been paid yet? The whole point of the lien is to get paid. When the payment clears at that point, you could file a Release of Lien. Not before it all clears. A lot of people make that mistake and get burnt on that.

Ranger Kidwell-Ross 

How about the ‘pay when paid’ and ‘pay if paid’ clauses? What we’ve always said is there’s no way to tell if a consolidator client has been paid or not; and, you certainly don’t ever want to sign a pay if paid contract. I know of one contractor that was having trouble getting paid. They were told, “Well, we haven’t been paid by the the national company.” Then what happened was they finally just called the manager of the national company at one of the stores that that they did work on. However, in their contract it said they were prohibited from contacting the place where they were actually doing the sweeping, that if you did that you voided the contract and and so forth. They should never have signed the contract, of course. Have you seen situations like that?

Mo Saleh 

Absolutely and it’s sad. Again, let’s take the emotions out of it and use the logic that says it doesn’t make sense, right? Because 99% of these companies have already been paid by the bigger box companies, by the Best Buys, the Home Depots, Lowes. They get paid monthly, seasonally, quarterly. 

They are not going to go contract the work out if they haven’t already been paid or if they haven’t received the thumbs up. Anytime somebody tells me that they have a contract where it’s paid if paid, it’s a huge red flag and something I adamantly say to avoid. It’s just going to cause you problems down the line. Now, if you have a long existing working relationship with a company, different story. There’s always two sides, right? But 99% of the time, I tell people avoid that instance, by any means paid if paid is not a good scenario for you. You’re not a nonprofit. You’re a for-profit company.

Ranger Kidwell-Ross 

That’s that’s absolutely right. What else should we talk about here? We’ve covered quite a bit of ground. Are there other things that you think we should bring up in this relationship? 

Working with a collection agency such as as yourselves we should talk about what percentage you normally would get and so forth. I know that a lot of times when I’ve seen contractors go to an attorney for collections that they’re facing upfront fees and so forth from the attorney, and then once the money is received, they pay a fairly significant percentage of the of the claim itself. So what is the difference, as a general rule, between an organization such as yourself and and having an attorney try to collect the money.

Mo Saleh 

So you’re 100% correct. There’s a lot of agencies and law firms out there that get paid up front. They want a retainer fee. They want costs up front, and then they’ll go after your money. I can’t speak for others but I can speak about my firm, Tucker, Albin and Associates. We have a different business model. We are 100% contingency, meaning we don’t get paid until you get paid. 

With that being said, we don’t take on every debt that’s out there. We want to make sure that it is collectible. We profile that and make sure that it’s something that we have an opportunity to recover. We don’t want to go spending all our time, energy and resources on something that’s a dead end with us. 

You pay nothing upfront; if we collect your money, we’re typically anywhere from 20% to 30%. But that’s only if and when we get paid. We’ll know within 60 to 90 days. We’ll either get the money paid or have an expected resolution date. 

If we can’t get it for you we also are glad to take everything we’ve uncovered in our investigation and report it back to you free of charge. We want to move on if we’ve done our due diligence for 60, 90 or 120 days, and we don’t see an end in sight at that point. At some timeframe there’s no point in us continuing to chase what you’re owed. Now, there are certain situations where there is a cash flow problem, but in those instances we are able to get something confirming that a payment will be made in 3, 4, 5 months, and we confirm with the vendor to make sure. 

Tucker, Albin and Associates has done a great job of building its business. We average $36 million a month in collection revenue. That’s not a small amount. We have fortune 500 companies and have smaller companies. However, a big chunk of the business that we do on a monthly basis comes from folks like the everyday listeners of yours. 

The middle American business owner who I always say send to our business the 1% of their business they don’t want to deal with or don’t know how to deal with. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve spoken with who just write it off and move on. When you’re not learning you’re not growing at that point. The advantage of having somebody like us is exactly that we will pursue and try to collect on it. Some of the other value added services you get when you become a client of ours is we will be more than happy to provide you with a business’ credit report. Let’s say you’re going to or want to do business with a specific organization. You can call me and say, “I’m looking at doing work with Company ABC. I could give you some basic information: Do they have any liens? Are they in our system? Do they owe other contractors? 

That way you can take that information and make the best business decision for you and your company. We do that free of charge. We also do an aging analysis. We can sit and take a look at your receivables on a spreadsheet and tell you which ones you should be concerned about based on their pay history. A lot of people think, oh, that’s what my accountant does. Or I’ve got someone in the office that does that. My experience tells me yes and no; your accountant is there to balance your books and keep the federal government from knocking at your door. The girl or guy working for you at your office does what they do best, which is help maintain and build your business. They’re not trained to collect. 

I always use this example. Every attorney doesn’t know how to collect or sue. Depending upon their experience, it can be like going to a foot doctor for an eye problem. Are they doctors? Yes, but are they going to be able to address the needs that get you the results you want? Not everybody’s like that, so I strongly advise you make sure you have some recourse to how you’re going to recover that money, and that’s where we come in.

Ranger Kidwell-Ross 

But at what point should I bring you in if I have a contract that’s supposed to be paid in 30 days, and they don’t pay in 30 days? Now the clock is ticking. At what point should we head your direction?

Mo Saleh 

The first day after you should have been paid and you haven’t been. If you don’t follow up on that 31st day, you are losing out. The longer an invoice sits, the less it’s worth. We have several companies who, on that 31st day, just automatically send over their invoices for us to collect on. You want to strike while the iron is hot. You want to keep reminding them that the payment is due. BTW, what that process has done is it’s been able to streamline their businesses, because now they don’t have to pay whoever it is sitting at the front office to keep following up and sending an invoice or making a phone call with more following up. They’ve got better things to do with the money you’re paying them. 

We also have the leverage at that point, while everything is still fresh, to be able to go ahead and approach them and resolve the financial differences and not have to think back 6, 7, 8 months ago or a year ago. Those are the companies that thank us all the time because we’re able to successfully streamline and manage their receivables for them.

Ranger Kidwell-Ross 

So what else should we talk about? Have we left anything out here that you can think about?

Mo Saleh 

I think for me it’s just making sure that your your members, understand the value they bring to the industry. I love what your World Sweeping Companies organization has done by building this community. It’s helping all of us. Unfortunately, there are some bad apples out there, as we mentioned at the beginning of this. But there’s a lot of good apples, and I believe in strength in numbers. I believe that if we work together, communicate better, it will force some of these other companies to change their practices and their ways. 

Don’t wait on those invoices. Contact us. Let us get started. We want to help accelerate your payment cycles. We want to reduce your bad debt. We will minimize your losses from uncollectible accounts. We will safeguard your reputation as well and maintain strong client relationships. When that happens you can choose to continue doing business with these companies again. We’re not there banging on doors with a gavel and, you know, looking to ruffle some feathers. However, the longer you wait, the tougher it is to collect that money. In short, my company, gives you two things that most companies can’t. It’s the gift of time and money. Everybody that you talk to will say, I wish I had more time, and I wish I had more money, and that’s what we’re here to do.

Ranger Kidwell-Ross 

Excellent point. And you probably, because you’re in this business and doing so much volume, you’re probably aware of some of the companies that are deadbeat because you hear from a variety of contractors. So that could be another value of working with an organization like Tucker, Albin.

Mo Saleh 

I do want to add that we are CLLA compliant. It’s the Commercial Law League of America, a nonprofit association where we’re held to the same standards as attorneys. If you placed an account with us, and after 90 to 120 days we haven’t made any traction or haven’t been able to get you paid but we think there’s an opportunity, there are times when you should proceed with legal action.

The Commercial Law League of America is a network of attorneys who will work on a contingency basis. At that point, we will referyou to them so that they could take your case on a contingency basis. So there’s always that option too, but they obviously charge a little more. Our goal is to save money on the front end for you. That’s the difference between a collection agency like ours and many other ones up front, besides the fact is that we don’t charge anything upfront at all.

Ranger Kidwell-Ross 

Well, that seems like a great place to leave this. Mo, you’ve, done a really excellent job, as I would expect, with many years of experience. Thank you.

Mo Saleh 

To close, I do want to mention this: Nobody in our industry bats 100%. Unfortunately, there have been plenty of times where I’ve had to say to someone that I can’t collect for them because it’s just bad paper. And if you’re okay with me saying that, then everything else will be easy. But anybody that promises you that they’re going to get you paid is full of it. Nobody bats 1005 in our industry. We, however, have a higher than industry average for doing collections because of the state-of-the-art technology we have. It’s also because of the continuing education our collectors have. 

My company does a lot of great things, and one of the best things that they do is they continually educate and give our collectors the tools necessary to keep up with the industries and the changing of industry parameters. You want somebody who knows what’s going on, and not somebody who does this once in a while. That’s going to be your best bet to get paid.

Ranger Kidwell-Ross 

That’s excellent. We can certainly leave it there. However, I think that is brings us back to attorneys that may specialize in divorce, but when you call them, they say, “Well, of course, we can help you with collections.” I really like the specialization concept you raise.

We’ve been talking to Mo Saleh, an associate with nearly 30 years of experience with Tucker, Albin and Associates. They have a great track record in the collections area. On behalf of our WSA members, thank you for your information. I think anybody that sees this should should have a positive opinion of your organization.

Mo Saleh 

If we can help one or two people, then we did our job here today. Thanks again.

The website for Tucker, Albin and Associations is: http://www.tuckeralbin.com/

Mo Saleh may be reached via email sent to m.saleh@tuckeralbin.com. You can call him by calling 504-215-7503 ext 346. He can also be reached by calling 248-313-8224.

If you have questions or comments about the article please contact Ranger via email sent to director@worldsweepingpros.org.